Education News: 1st half of February 2024

In this latest episode of the podcast ‘If I were the Minister for Education’, I explore the recent happenings within the Irish primary education system, discussing the aftermath of SET allocations and the implications this had on schools and teachers. The episode also delves into the issue of Irish school buildings being gifted to private religious bodies and assesses the impact of this decision. Finally, I explore why the Scottish see the Irish education system in such a positive light, primarily referring to Ireland’s performance in PISA tests. Show notes available on

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Hello? Hello. You are very welcome to if I were the minister for education. A regular podcast where I explore the world of the Irish primary education system and tell you what I would do if I were the minister for education. This is Simon Lewis here with a trip around the first half of February. In this episode, I will be exploring the SCT allocations and the aftermath of that. I'll be looking at how schools are being gifted to private bodies and why the Scottish think work great. But for all the wrong reasons. I hope you enjoy this episode. And if you do, please feel free to subscribe. By going to on subscribing ties as a podcast, or even my regular newsletter, which I send out every fortnight. To tell you all about what's going on in the world of the Irish primary school system and what I would do if I were the minister for education. So let's get on with it on, see what has been featuring in the Irish education system and. It's first. Is set allocations. And for those of you who are watching this on video, you'll probably see a very cross. Looking principal, if you haven't. If you can't see, and you're just listing in here, you could be assured that principal is looking very across the deed and with good reason, because the set allocations for. For those of you who don't know what they are. These were the hours given to schools to help children with traditionally called learning support or resource hours. If you're very old, they might be known as remedial. Of course you don't use that language anymore, but sash stands for special education teaching. And the allocations are based at basically every school is allocated a certain number of hours per week. Which they can use to have a certain number of teachers to teach the entire caseload of children with additional needs in the school. The definition of what special education at needs at is these days. And 2024 has broadened a lot since this began. It used to be just literacy and numeracy needs, but that's now extended to all sorts of needs, whether they be behavioral needs, emotional needs, sometimes care needs. Despite that being the job of special needs assistance. And every single need between that. And. I suppose why our principal here is very cross is because the allocations this year have changed and not for the batter. Open till 2017, we had a model where children were allocated hours, depending on the diagnosis, our disability, they might have if they had autism. Or if they would receive five hours per week of extra tuition or extra help, if they had done syndrome, it was three and a half hours. And around 2012, 2013, Ruairi Quinn when he was minister for education because of the recession cut those by 15%. And then in 2017, the set allocation model came about where so weird. Strange kind of algorithm, which nobody quite understands and nobody can access because it's protected from freedom of information requests. Was given out to every school. And weirdly enough, I don't know how this formula or this algorithm was developed, but almost every school seemed to get roughly the hours they were getting before 2017. What an algorithm that it was so clever to be able to do that based on a number of criteria, which included the child's gender, the children's gender. So girls schools weren't getting as many hours as boys schools are mixed skills. You also had complex needs. You also had literacy and numeracy scores, which which was a bit scandalous really at the time, it's still the scandalous because we only started sending our standardized test results to the department of education in 2011. With the promise that they'd only be used for statistical purposes. And low and behold, they are now. Even back then, they were being used for about some of the allocations now in 2024, but they have been used for about 65% of the allocations. I've been given. So they're certainly not being used for statistical purposes. And of course there were a couple of other variables within the allocation model. There are including whether you're a disadvantaged status and things like that. But in 2024, so 2017 came along. They were reviewed in 2019 reviewed again in 2022. And essentially what we found out over those years. I did a bit of research on this as. The other is but we found at that particularly developing skills that were being absolutely screwed over on last week's podcast, explored all the statistics around that. So you can have a look at this. We're moving on now, because since then the allocations were published and they got rid and they caught, this is again as always there's cuts when it comes to special education in Ireland. In the guise of, oh, increases, we've got 1200 extra teachers we've got, there's never been any more resource hours being given to children. But in reality, because there are more children with additional needs. It is a cuts by stealth. And I guess. What really, has annoyed. Most people is the area of complex needs been just simply gone from the allocation. So if you have had a school with lots of children with complex needs you wouldn't be getting the hours this time for them. So 33% of schools, a third of schools experienced a cost in their allocation this year. And this really has caused a lot of consternation and a number of agencies have called have been in touch about this. The national principal's forum were talking about it and they were talking about the cluster games. And I'll talk about that now in a second, but a principal here in Westmeath, my region is in the Midlands and it's been without. I was a NEPs psychologist since 2020, December, 2020. Our allocation is insufficient given our school's needs. And I feel so frustrated and sorry for the children and their families on a principle in Roscommon next door. We're very disappointed that pupils with complex needs were not taken into account in the new model for calculating allocations. And really this a press release from the national principal's forum goes on and on about how awful the system is ending with Laura Kelly. Who's a principal and came to Kilkenny. Who wrote a very long sent a statement or sentence but just to summarize it, the list is on ending about this is about our jobs as principals. The list is on ending and you have to department field it's okay to continue to load on roles and responsibilities to principals. I am utterly overwhelmed. The job is not sustainable. And what Laura was talking about here was something that has become known as. The cluster games, or as I know us. I don't really have a name for it, except I do, except for something that's a bit rude. Eh, Basically. I shit show. What it is if you can imagine every principal is a pigeon. And the department of education has tossed out a few breadcrumbs. Basically when the SET allocation. Ours come out. Principals have to fight over the hours to make up clusters. Okay. Clusters of 25 hours to make up a full post. So if you're a school with 20 spare hours, I allocated, you're desperate looking for another school with five hours to make a marriage. And the trouble is with this model and why I call it a shit show rather than the cluster games. Although the cluster gain is a very good analysis because it is a death match really. Is that every school that goes into this, it's trying to save a teacher, trying to save a teacher from the dreaded panel. And the dreaded panel is basically a safeguard for any permanent teacher who might lose their job due to falling numbers. And they get put on a panel so they can have a permanent job in a school close by apple principals. Really don't like losing teachers to the panel. There's lots and lots of reasons why they say this is true. They say that they put it invest a lot of training. They invest a lot into relationships. The person who's there builds up a big relationship with the children and to lose that person can be a travesty. If they become a minor player, let's say in the marriage, but what. Th the impact. Of principals basically fighting over these breadcrumbs in a desperate bid to become the base school is that they will kill each other and they will fight with each other and they will fall out with each other over these hours. And. Really it's it just doesn't work where you have 3000 schools squabbling over a small amount of resources with no no way of making it work. W I developed but I didn't develop at all. A teacher developed with that with a bit of help for me. A set cluster guy ag tool, which allows schools to log in and try and find other skills that might match with them. But to be perfectly honest at the What it works really well. To a point it relies on Goodwill from principals and I've argued. In one of my blog posts, which I, if you want to read at, you'll find it in the show notes at that. I don't think principals really, I think what principals do is they leave their principles behind they are not very kind to each other. It's a real example of the lack of collegiality within the system. The sat allocation hours and pigeon show. Is really shows me the lack of collegiality within our profession. And I understand why, but I understand the system is designed to do this, but any calls or any ideas that we are collegial with each other are absolutely on. True. I was I've spoken to, I would say I've spoken to dozens of principals in the last couple of weeks and some of them quite upset because. One in particular is a principal who in, in some other parts of the country, I won't say where it is. It's not fair. Just in case I don't want to identify them, but basically they were just assumed that their local, their neighboring schools would form a cluster when. When they looked at the list of schools, the schools within her area, they're small schools The three of them matched exactly the 25 hours. The person waited after the bank holiday to contact them. And when she rang them, I've given away their gender there when she rang and said, oh no, we're sorted. We got sorted over the bank, holiday laughter high and dry, but that's the kind of stuff that's going on. And I find it I find it horrible and I don't like it and I don't think we should be engaging in it. I think the department of education should be dealing with all this sort of stuff. I did write a blog post called spilling the tea on sat allocations, a guide for disillusioned principals. The idea of that a while as if you were still looking for hours and there are still, and this is we're going to the third week here. There's still a lot of principals as still looking for hours, looking for the scavenger hunts. And I shared the app that was done by a dark onion. Who's the person who made the tool. And you can have a look at that. And I've given some ideas of what you can possibly do because when you've been really screwed over by your neighbors or by your other by other principals who just go off and do. Their own thing. I just think, This these little tips here might help you. One of them is do nothing. Just let the departments sort out your problem. I think after, I think if you've made a good stab of it, you need to let the department of education sort your problems. And they do and they can't, and I've done it. And it really does work out. You may end up with a part-time teacher. You may even end up finding a cluster somewhere dot. That might work for you that you didn't realize, but it will work out. And my advisory was, when you finished hazing, you're out. You're a fan of your fellow principals and getting I'm getting over of the disillusionment of this whole thing. You might just consider do, accepting the fact that this is an awful thing. Maybe joining me in my request. To principals to stop engaging in this nonsense. To be honest. I don't think people are going to, the other thing that's come out of this. As I said, was the allocation model. Losing the cluster hours. And a few statements came out about dash the national principal's forum. As I said, came out criticizing the fact that they've cooked complex needs. Which has made lots of 33% of schools lose a significant amount of hours. The charity inclusion Ireland has also sat there absolutely disturbed by the fact that this has happened. And I also was in the newspaper, the Irish examiner at the, by the allocation of special education teachers, which is wholly inadequate. In my view. So really a lot of news and special education teaching world. I'm I have to say it's been an absolute shambles and it still remains an absolute shambles and very upsetting for principals around the country who just. Couldn't find a partner. And the people that are most disadvantaged, this are inexperienced principals, new principals who haven't built up these networks, who CA who aren't, who actually trust the system still. To be fair, a nice and good. And obviously the other people you feel very sorry for, and most importantly, a one should say are the children who are basically getting fewer resources for their increasing needs. And it really. As a shambles. And I think I've ranted enough about dash I've in the newsletter. I've linked several articles around the sat allocations and the criticism around it. I have yet to meet a school. That's happy with the allocations. Let's move on and see where we're going next. We're moving on. To something called gifting schools. What though? And. Here it is how much money is being gifted to religious bodies by the Irish state. I don't know. Many people who listen to this. Ah, no, that I am someone who believes there should be a complete separation of church and state. The reason I believe that as many people know is because when the, when a private body runs a school, whether that's a religious body or not religious body their ethos has to permeate throughout the school day. On the impact of that in 90% and actually 96% of cases is that is a religious ethos. And in 90% of cases, it's the Catholic church. And in 5% of cases, it's the church of origin. So there's a Christian ethos in about 95 to 96% of schools, which means that throughout the day of every school day, Jesus is in the room with you. And some of you might not think that's a bad thing, but for someone who does not worship Jesus, It's entirely. at best inconvenient and maybe. Just annoying really that every, so every. It feels every five minutes. You're having to worship someone that you don't believe in. You don't believe, you don't believe his message. And I suppose if you're a teacher in these skills, you probably might not believe in God yourself yet. You're expected to be a missionary. And if you don't. If you're not a missionary for the Catholic church, because you are a missionary, when you work in a Catholic primary school or in a church of Ireland school or any religious school. You have to impart the word of your religion onto the children. It's part. If you're in a Catholic school, you must pass on the word of Jesus. And I know a lot of the Catholic. People out there, the people who represented Catholic buddies say no, we're only inviting the children to take part in the Catholic faith. I don't want an invitation. I'm not, and children, aren't looking for an invitation to the Catholic faith. If their parents are not raising them as conflicts. And it's really not, it's not okay to be inviting people who aren't Catholic into the Catholic faith. It's I just can't. It's, I can't think of an analogy, but. Because it's such a bizarre thing. Why would anyone think it's okay. To try and try and converse children in a public school. It just, it makes no sense. People probably don't see it that way because it's so normalized. 99.7% of teachers in Ireland, outside. That's all you often say are white and Irish.

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And those that are at 95% of them are Christian. So a lot of this stuff is invisible. To add these people who don't think they're being missionary. Sure. It's only a few prayers insured, what harm and sure. We're very inclusive. We allow children into the school. Don't we end sure. If they're sitting at the back of the class, what are, and all that kind of nonsense that go on now, the Catholic church have survived a huge amount. I would suggest. For example, the big one really they've survived systematic sexual abuse of children, and they're still allowed to run schools. And I have nerdy given up on thinking, how can we, and I'm not. I've nothing against Catholics at all. If people celebrate their faith in any way, shape or form, that's absolutely up to them. And I have no problem with people's celebration of faith of any sort, but I don't think the institution of the church should be running schools. Forget the sexual abuse because it's so emotive and people will excuse it and all sorts of different ways. But this is something that I came across that I thought was just amazing. How much that demote of money that's being gifted by the state to religious bodies. And in this article where I basically did a freedom of information request. Finding out how much money does the state spend on capital school projects, a building school buildings, they build the schools and then they basically give the building to the Catholic church or the church body. Four with few conditions. Certainly no conditions that No, no conditions have any merit. I actually asked what were the conditions? For a hunting it over as if there'd be something, interesting, but they're all just building relations. They're construction related. They can do whatever they like and they do. What they like is they use them as missionaries. They use them as someone we'll call them indoctrination centers if they wanted to be emotive. But I would say their faith forming institutions, which they are, of course, the idea of a Catholic school and the only difference between a Catholic school and a school that is not conflict is the form of forming of faith. So if you go to a Jewish school, The idea would be dirt. That you would be for after you would have faith formation in the Jewish faith. And the difference between that and a Catholic school is you'd have faith formation and a Catholic faith. So like that's the only difference. Everything else is the same, but for whatever reason, despite, and I mentioned the national maternity hospital in the, in this article, because if you look back to the national maternity hospital scandal I guess basically the department or the state wants to build a new maternity hospital and they were going to build them on the grounds of St. Vincent's hospital, which is owned by the sisters of charity. And the idea was that they were build this sad hospital. I think it was going to cost 2 billion Euro. Although I could be wrong on that figure. Once that happens, they're going to effectively give the building to the nuns on a lease basis so that they would pay a nominal fee every year after the building. But at the end of the lease, the building will belong to the nuns and this made people really cross And people houses of people took to the streets. About it because they were afraid and they were about this arrangement. I didn't really, I don't know if they minded the money. I think they did a bit, but they had what they said was the con. There were concerns about possible external interference in the operation of the hospital, because you would think they would look at schools and say, but, because school buildings are gifted back to the state and religious interference certainly happens, but that wasn't their thing. They just, I think to be honest with you, I think they have a problem with the nuns. And if I think they were hunting the priests, I don't know how many people were being. I wish I was. I think Ireland has a very odd relationship with the Catholic church in terms of, they seem to really dislike nuns in particular. And I don't know why that is, and maybe I'm wrong on that. But there was a big thing about it, if you see some of the posters in the article I've linked to in the thing, there's lots of signs that are very disparaging about nuns. That you probably wouldn't see if it was generally about the Catholic church, but. I don't know. I don't know. It's a bit. It's a bit mad, but what I think about whenever I see a school being built is I just think there's another few million Euro gone to the Vatican. And essentially. That's what happens? The building. Th when the department of education build a building on the school land. The state don't own the. A school. It is gifted to the diocese. Which is a bit mad in my estimation. So I wanted to find out how much it was and the figure is roughly 500 million Euro in the last five years. So every year it's about a hundred million year old average that is just gifted in buildings to the, to religious bodies. People might say to me, oh what about educate together? And what about the other man? They don't own any of the buildings. It's only church bodies, that own buildings. And also, I suppose I didn't include like the capitation grant that's given to keep, not only did the department of education. Sorry. Give the buildings over. They also add heat them and light them. I keep them on upkeep them. I it's bizarre. It's like someone building me a building a house. Okay. So a builder builds a house. I say I'd like to live there. And they said, okay, here you go. There's a house for free. And I go, thank you very much. That's great. I can you just pass me on the ESB there so I can pay? Oh no. You don't have to pay any of the bills in that house. We're paying them for you. Ah, okay. Okay. And do I have to do anything? Oh no you don't have to do anything at all, actually. In fact if you have a religious belief, you can insist that anyone that comes into your house must pray. Ah, okay. I, that sounds great. And and what happens. If I decide. That I want to leave my house and go somewhere else. I asked don't don't don't worry. Simon. We will rent. We will pay rent to you for that. That's what happens. It's really weird. And I can understand it. Madly enough I put this out online madly enough. People were defending it, like defending it, like I'm calling me a bigot because I was questioning it. If I wasn't, I really regret not saying like the state was funding McDonald's in the same way, because there was a film there about McDonald's how they became. Hi, they became but they bought all the land are at where the restaurants are being built and then just basically cleaned the restaurants. It was very, it was a really good film if you haven't seen, I can't think of the name of it. But it's essentially the same model. I wish I really wish I had a van started that whole thing saying, oh my gosh, can you believe it? That. The state is basically funding McDonald's ration there, but building McDonald's restaurants and gifting the building to McDonald's. But anyway, I didn't. Ah, how do I have. I am assuming the people that would have been very upset about it, but because it's the Catholic church. People seem to keep, take that very differently.

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I tried to explain. On Twitter, because I was getting the same questions over and over again, and being called anti this anti that and all the rest of us. And, I came to the conclusion. That. I probably can't, I'm not going to get through to people on this one. I'm not going to succeed. I feel. And I could be, I don't think I'm wrong on this, that there's this sort of cognitive dissonance for most Irish people when it comes to the Catholic church, I always give the example of Sean Moncrief, who wrote an article in the Irish times about how he ticked no religion in the census box, but. He is going to allow his daughter make her communion. And his reasoning was because he isn't anti-Catholic as if that's the only reason children wouldn't make their communion. I also, gave other examples. I, and I'm one of them was, I'm not gonna mention his name because. But I basically mentioned this other politician. Who basically was at the protest at the national maternity hospital and talk. And he spoke quite publicly about how his, how he doesn't want us, how his daughter was born. On the, on a referendum day. I think it was the the abortion referendum and how he. He was talking about it, like how he'd hope that she sees a world of a quality of away from the interference of, the Catholic church and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then, and then in the same article wrote about how he sends her to a Catholic school because, I can't even remember the excuse. And anyway, I pointed that one out as well, and he actually. It's very bizarre. He actually messaged me then calling me disgraceful and disgusting, and then started slacking me off because I pay for my Twitter account. I felt like I was a 15 year old in school and the schoolyard bully was Coming on to, it's not the first step marred interaction of how this particular politician. I certainly have questioned him on a number of occasions and not so much so that, I suppose I was probably became annoying. So he blocked me on Twitter because I kept. Annoying him over a thing he did when he was in government. And I was never abusive. I just kept pointing out the fact that when he was giving Asia bites, It's something he could have actually solved the problem when he was in government and didn't and chose not to. And the reason he didn't add do it wasn't because he couldn't. It was for another reason under. Getting more and more tempted to reveal the reason why. As time goes on and as nasty as he's being I can't, I have to admit, I lost a little bit of sleep over it because I felt intimidated. By him. Anyway, he owned, blocked me for 10 minutes to hurl. Mad stuff at me and then consequently, block me on anyway, God, at times I sound like I'm in school. It's so immature. I sometimes I find. Social media, it can infantalise you a little bit when you're trying to make adult conversations, you end up, having people throw childish. Nonsense at you. Anyway, enough about my spots with TDS, let's move on to the final story, which I love, and this is a brilliant one. It's why Scottish people think we're a great. I found add a story. It wasn't a Scottish newspaper. Why are Irish kids so far ahead of Scottish pupils? It's in this. At P and J I think, which is a Scottish news website of the year.

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This is a great story. I love it. It makes me remember like the obsession with Finland that we all had for a number of years, I suppose we still do. We have a lot to learn from the fins, but we have a lot to learn from lots of other countries as well, but the Scots are basically looking at why Irish kids are so far ahead of Scottish peoples. And they're focusing entirely on the PISA scores because. I don't know how we do it, and I'd love to know the secret myself. We seem to perform really well in the Piza. Tables, despite the huge underinvestment in the education system. So this journalist. Ah, try to find out what that reason was and do you know what he did rather than, Asking. Maybe people in the Irish education system, I thought he might go to the minister for education or spokesperson New York. No. Instead what he did is he found Irish people living in Scotland and ask them their parents they're not educators or anything. I thought maybe they are educators. I don't think they were though. But they go on anyway. She starts off by saying how great we are at rugby compared to Scotland. And that's another question that could be asked, why are we so good at rugby? For such a small country. And I suppose you could, might look at the education system in a different way for that. But let's stick to the script here. Jeez. I'm here. Almost analyzing rugby. I don't think I could name two rugby players. If you asked me, I'd say my rugby knowledge is only dwarfed by my lack of knowledge on GAA. Anyway, let's see what Scottish people think about. The Irish education system one pro. One person decided that teachers are much more respected than Scottish teachers. Now. If you look at any headlines in the newspapers over the last few years, you will find that I would say that is probably not true and probably not why we do so well on PISA scores. So an interesting us. And last assessment. I do think that is true. We do have less assessment, but so do the fins and so do quite a lot of highly regarded countries. And maybe maybe that's maybe I'll give her one. It's a point for that? I think that's fair enough. I thought one of the centers that wasn't very fair here, teachers are not respecting the same in Scotland. Therefore, very capable students. Don't go into teaching. That's I don't know. It's a bit harsh to say. I think there's still a lot of people that wants to go into, I think teaching is a respected profession, even in Scotland and Ireland, I'd say it's much respected. Maybe. I don't know. They think anyway that the whole system has gotten, it has to change. At, but this is the one that I thought was interesting. It was their parents. Parents. Basically. I take the responsibility for the child's education. Do you know that now there's two ways of looking at that. The first way is in the constitution, parents have a right to choose whatever school they want to send their child to. And they are the first education now. I don't really think. That in, in the practice makes it very much of a difference to anyone. I think. All that does is the complicates. Our education system actually makes our education system work. I think. We could have an even better education system. If we didn't have the system we have, which is so fractured as we've seen from the sat allocation model and things like that. And I actually think our, I think we're good to find yourselves going down the piece of tables because of the way. We're treating children with additional needs and the way we're treating. Migrants the way we're treating we w I suppose, as we become a less homogenous society and we become, we are. The last module Sashi for quite some time. But as we've calmed it even less and less homogenous. I can see by doing nothing by treating our migrants and by teaching our children traditional. And needs with contempt. I would say. I think we're going to find yourself slipping down bus. They basically say it's all about higher support, high respect for teachers. I just, I don't get that. I don't think so. I, the other thing, which I thought was bizarre. Ah, I'm probably the funniest of the mall was we've had a taste of prosperity. The Irish people, we had the Celtic tiger. So we know what it's like to get a good education there for, to be rich as the rules of a tour. Then another Celtic tiger has passed. Where we will continue to aspire to VIG at, to be back to those consequences. So basically education equals money. It's a bizarre kind of conclusion. I don't know where it's. They said we had a taste of the money and suddenly we're in a bit of a decline and the bubble burst. But in Ireland because we've had a taste of what life could be. Kids are more driven to succeed. Now. I don't know. How much of this is true. In fact, I don't think any of us really true at all. I honestly don't know why Ireland is the. I think I tell you I'll make my educated guess. As to why Ireland. Has is highly performing the piece of results. And I think it's actually because of our autonomy. I think we trust our teachers and I think whether we respect them or not, I think we trust them. We trusted they're doing a good job. I also think that we, I don't know, I'll tell you this in a negative way, even though it's going to sound negative. I think we over teach literacy. At particularly, we also, I don't know if we over teach numeracy, but we over teach them literacy. To a point that and reteach it in such a way that suits the PISA tests. I don't think I think if we taught in a different way, we might score lower in the PISA scores, but we might actually, pieces of limited sort of AB test. I think. When you see who's number one in there. And that's one of the Korean career in Republic. I think isn't Brunner is it's Singapore, but it's definitely a country where you wouldn't want an education system like that. Where you have 30 plus children crammed into a room and cram teaching them all the time. They're the schools that are succeeding the most. And I don't know, I prefer to have a system that succeeds for different reasons. I think maybe we're good at relationships and naturally. Maybe that's something that we're, we bring into our schools, but look. I'm as bad as these parents in this article, making these gases. Rady and I suppose what I should be doing is leaving them to the experts. Both. As I said, I think. It's great. They think we're gracious. I have a taste of what people in Finland must feel when the Irish were going over saying my goodness, what's it like to be a teacher in Finland while the Scottish wants to learn from us. And they're very welcome to come over here, but they'll have to get back into the EU so they can do those Erasmus things. What a pity Brexit, ah, Happened for them. Anyway that are there, the three things I, as three stories I wanted to bring to your attention. The sat allocations, gifting schools to the various church bodies and why the Scottish people think we're a great. If you are interested in reading. More of my thoughts. I, you should subscribe to my newsletter. And you can do that by going to This podcast as well is available on all your favorite podcasting platforms. And I would love to hear your thoughts and you can contact me at Simon out of Shots on Nash or if you're on Twitter still, I think there are people are leaving their droves I'm I probably will too, at some point. If if you do, I'm still there anyway, and you can DM me and I'd be happy to charge, or you can join in the conversation if you wish that's it for me for this week. Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back again in a couple of weeks with more news up from the Irish education system. And look forward to talking to you then all the very best bye-bye.

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