Who will be the next Minister for Education?

Hello? Hello. You're very welcome to if I were the minister for education from unsharp dot Nash. A regular podcast where I delve into the world of primary education and let you know what I would do. If I were the minister for education, this is Simon Lewis. If you enjoy this podcast, please feel free to subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform. And please leave a review as it will help reach more teachers. In this episode, I will be pondering after a general election. Which I suppose did not yield much change who is going to be the next minister for education. As I am basically looking at the landscape at the moment as it stands and recording this, it does look like the government will be made up of Faena Gale and some independence. So I'm going to be looking at the potential Finn fall or Faena Gale ministers or potential ministers for education will Norma Foti. B. Remain in her position on survive or shuffle or will Faena foil give Phoenix, Gale the poison chalice of the ministry for education and who will it be? I'm going to go through my top 10 or 12 possibilities of who I think might be the minister for education and why I think there'll be that I'd be very interested in your own comments. So please reply at to the podcast. On the various social media that I'm on these days, I'm still on acts just about but also on the various other platforms, Instagram threads and blue sky, of course, where most people have escaped to. You can always contact me as well on my email, Simon at onshore dot Nash. And I'd be delighted to hear from you, especially if you have any ideas for a future episode, or if you'd like me to cover any aspect of the primary education system. So let's get into it straight away. And I guess we thought we were going to have a bit of an anticlimax before the election. And I suppose with the timing of it being announced and the short amount of time between it being announced and actually happening. I guess we expected an anticlimax of having a Faena file and Faena Gale coalition. But I guess the question was going to be who were they going to be in coalition with? I don't think, I suppose with one TD left, I don't think the greens are going to be in coalition. And the big question mark was whether the social Democrats or labor would jump in at the moment. That isn't looking likely though, that could change. Today or tomorrow or the next day, the way these things go, the temptation to go into government. I imagine is very tempting because if you have key issues that you want to put through, And there's a, the only way of doing that, according, I suppose to the world of politics is to be in government. As I said, I'm an armchair. Fan of politics. And I don't know. I don't know anything really do. Bush ad. That's just my own beliefs. I know what I am a little bit of, I wouldn't say an expert in, but it certainly, I have a bigger interest in is education, specifically primary education. And what I am interested in is who is going. To be the next minister for education. And what I'm going to do is I ain't going to give you my top 10. Of possible. Minister version is some sort of countdown show style thing. I will say before I do as a few outsiders that I thought might adapt, that I have written about in my medium blog. So let's get on to the top 10. In 10th place. It's Nile Collins from Faena foil. So the reason I put NA. And he's in the running and the top 10, but quite far down is because he's been in the role of minister for further education for the last few years. And this might be seen as a promotion. So he's got nothing to do with primary education and I'm not sure what the focus of the new government will be in terms of education. It seems. Primary education is has really been neglected to me anyway, has been neglected terribly for quite some time. Especially in special education, especially in patronage, especially in funding. And so there's areas that need to be absolutely looked at there. And secondary school education is in terrible bother. From what I can see with leaving cert reform, there's a huge amount of animosity, AI, all that is coming into it. And then I don't know about further education and what kind of situation it's in. But either way being promoted to the full minister of education. It would be a promotion for Neil Collins. He seems to be an experienced politician with ma has had major roles in previous government. So he has experience. So he might be someone who might steady the education ship. Now I've never heard anything really from him about primary education. And I can't think why he would be chosen over people above in the list for the role, but he's an outsider I don't know what batting rates are, but he's in 10th place in my view for the ministry. Let's move on to number nine, Hildegard Nocton. I'm very much an outside that in the similar vein to Nial Collins has a junior. I don't know if it's a junior or senior or is it a super junior ministry? But it's she is a minister for special education. And maybe this is seen as a stepping stone for the main minister for education job, especially if the focus is tackling special education, which seems to be the only show in town. If you look at the newspapers, when it comes to talking about education, Our primary level, at least. I don't know. If Hildegard, Nocton got to grips with the portfolio of special education after Josefa Madigan finished up. I don't think she had a lot of time. I think she had to spend a lot of her time going around to schools and learning about the portfolio, learning about things to say and what not to say. She read from the scripts most of the time, which I don't blame her again. It's not a position. It's a complex position and special education. I've argued has been neglected severely. Over the last 10 years, at least. And there's a lot of fixing to do. And a lot of collaboration that's needed with health as well as education, as well as the department of children. So it's not a single portfolio, special education. Isn't just an educational position. There's a lot of other complex issues. Around therapies around our physical supports around care supports and things like dash. Whoever it's going to be is going to need to do a lot of work in special education. That's why I put here, the guard knocked an in as the main person out her experience in other fields. Which are also necessary and possibly as important. I haven't heard her speaking on, so that's why I have her maybe further outside in that position. Let's go to number eight. So number eight is John Connolly. From Faena foil. And you might go, who. Which is what I did because I haven't heard of them despite the fact that he and I share the same job. He is a primary school principal who is now a TD. And being elevated to being the minister of education straight away, just because he was a primary school principal might be as surprising given that first time TD and Norma Foley got the nod. The last time she was elevated straight into the minister for education, which is held onto for quite some time. However, I feel this time. There's probably a few people. Ahead of them in the queue for the job. Eh, he isn't somebody who's ever come on my radar in the primary education world. The prime education system is quite a small And you would hear of famous primary school principals for want of a better word. And I've never heard the name, John Connolly in that. As sort of sentences. And you know, when people are speaking about influential people in primary education, I haven't heard John Kennedy's name mentioned at all. Maybe he's popular in his native county and is well known there. And clearly he's well respected because he wouldn't have gotten elected otherwise. But it's difficult to know actually where he would stand on issues and education. And would he simply do what norm of Foley did, which was essentially read from the script from their advisors or would he having been a primary school principal and knowing the struggles of being a primary school principal say I'm going to fix those things. That's why John Connolly is my number eight. Number seven. Katherine Callahan from Faena Gale. Now. This is possibly my local bias showing in a way being from Carlo as Catherine Callahan is. But it isn't for that reason, I put her up in lofty position, number seven. And maybe I'm being a bit generous, but I think should make for a very interesting minister for education because she's involved in the education system. But she isn't a teacher. What would my culinary think of this? Because she's actually a special needs assistance and being a special needs assistant would bring a very interesting perspective. To the education system, because it's, while you're in the education system, you're a, I wouldn't, it's a, it's not generous. To call you a kind of an outsider on the inside. But when people talk about education in Ireland, Sometimes special needs assistance. Aren't as appreciated as they should be. For their knowledge of the system. And because they experience the system from a really interesting perspective from the needs of what are sometimes called the most vulnerable. And I don't like the term the most vulnerable because they're only vulnerable because they're not getting what they should be getting. But anyway, that's a bit of a rant in the middle of this. I think she'd be an interesting minister for education. It's her first time being elected. So it will be a massive jump much like people before her. And I'm not quite sure. What she actually stands for in terms of education, because I've never heard of her. Despite being a local person. So her high rank here might be because she is likely the most qualified to tackle special education. Which might own, which may be Faena, Gale's only interest in the primary education manifesto. Why wouldn't you put a special needs assistant in the portfolio of special education? I suppose if that comes up, but maybe if that's your main jump, it might be the full minister for education. That's got into the next on number six. Carl Crow. From Faena foil. Remember him, anyone remember him think cast your mind back to COVID 19 days. And there was a man called Carl Crow who decided to pull up the sleeves and do a day of subbing in his. In his local primary skill and kind of declare. Infamous an infamous situation because it completely backfired when it came across as being critical of his colleague, Norma Foley. Who was under pressure at the time with the teacher shortage. And she was denying as always that there was a teacher shortage and by Carla Crowe going into a day sobbing. At didn't really ruin with Norma Foley's narrative that there wasn't a teacher shortage. It was slightly, I think what Carla Crowe is trying possibly to do was what Leon Gradcracker did. Remember Leo Varadkar and decided he'd add, pull up his sleeves and be a doctor for a couple of days and go into the hospitals. And I dunno, as he had given COVID injections at the time I got to, nobody was doing to be honest, but anyway, people thought, oh, that was good, man. Other people. And so on. Coho didn't come out of it as well. But like I get what he was trying to do. He has a primary school teacher after all. But he's really never raised his head. Above the power pose in terms of leadership and education. I've never really heard him talk about education short. Of Geno. The usual stuff Defina fall go on about. And you know, it felt, I feel if you're a primary school teacher in the doll, You should be saying more. Than your average TD, when it comes to education, you shouldn't just be, you know, towing the party line and talking about school lunches and free school books, you should be talking about pedagogy should be talking about it. What are the things that actual primary school teachers are talking about? And he never did dash. So I can't really see him advocating for any changes. To anything that Most people really care about an education. And I feel, he seems to be a nice man. He seems to be a Joe McCue type minister, like a friendly face, but I don't see any massive push from him to challenge the system. Now it could be wrong. My. I have no dealings with them. I only know him from that infamous day of sobbing Bush. I never heard him really saying anything interesting about the education system. So that's why I haven't further down the list and some might think. Number five, we're getting serious. Now these are the potential possibilities. And this is my, let's say left of field kind of concept. I have, I had her higher actually, when I was drafting this list. And just.. She fell down into number five possible. Number five. And that's Jennifer Carol McNeill from Phoenix Gale. And you might wonder why someone who isn't a teacher or involved in education would be so high up the list in terms of a portfolio. Because I think I see Jennifer Carl McNeil and I have no dealings with her either. And as a TD that's in the ascendancy and for me, Carol McNeil would be this kind of interesting left to field possibility for the portfolio. What I know nothing really about your credentials. She is one of the more well-known ministers. If you were to ask the average Joe, on the street to name me ministers in the government. I think so. I think Jennifer Carol McNeil would be named by many people as someone that people know. It, despite I don't think she has a major portfolio. Again, I maybe I'm wrong in that, but she's not in the big ones, you know? And I think she's in the ascendancy for that. And if I think back to the previous four ministers for education. It's been either a complete unknown who gets the position like Joe McCue or Norma Foti, who nobody had heard of before they got the jobs. I remember when both of them are nice. The first thing people did was go to Google rather than go. Nah, yeah, I've heard of her. Or it was a very senior politician like Richard Bruton or Rory Quinn who were on their last portfolio. That's a, who are going to go off into the sunset and they may have had something to prove or some sort of fleeting interest in education. And we know what Rory Quinn's, our interests are on bridge. Britain's ones where both really tried their best to push those through. Education in a kind of very neglected spaces. I've called it. It might be a good opportunity for an up and coming politician to make their marks such as Jennifer Carol McNeil. I see her as this as someone who's up and coming. And I think. It would be. A calculated kind of risk. To put her there. In a way that. You could, she could be used by the party. To do something big. Because if it worked. It would keep the ascendancy going. And if it didn't work. I don't know if the fallout will be done. But because again, it's, I'm saying it's only education in inverted commas. She's not going to crush the economy by, taking a risk in education. And as I said, it's in such a tired space, such anything we'll probably work. And. I feel over 50 years on since do-now Marley. Ma made an unpopular and risk and a revolutionary thing for second level education. There were possibly do. Done O'Malley moment in special education, or even in patronage. Because I think we need a minister for education. Let's take special education and then separately from patronage. We're definitely do a revolution in special education. Like something, I don't know what the something is, but it, I think. there's something big needs to happen in special education. And I feel you need a very strong minister who will basically say what we're going to do is we are going to sort as special education. We are going to put a teaching assistant in every single classroom in Ireland. That would be. A big thing to do, which would help special education out in a big way. And if she did that will be a massive step for special education. In patronage, it would be, she could, and again, this is something I'm not naive enough to think she would come in and say, I will separate church and state, even if she might believe that will be the right answer. But the next step for patronage. Is. Diocese. Any diocese basically saying we are going to divest all of our schools to. Different patrons, I think that's most likely to happen. And that would maybe. Make a fall through or she might be braver again. I'm not saying this is what she's going to do. I note, I don't know her from Adam. I just see her as someone who is the most likely to do something revolutionary take a risk. She might actually say to the churches as part of the abuse at scandals and repayments that we're going to put in a plan in place over the next 20 to 30 years, where the department of education is going to buy back all of the schools in the country and run them. And finally we can get a state run system, which will respect all people's rights and stop schools from being Running around religious lines. I just feel she of all the 10 that we have here, she's the most likely to do something risky and possibly unpopular. I think Rory Quinn and Richard Bruton, both similarly tried to do some very Quinn started off by saying, I'm going to make sure that we reduce religious girls by 50%. It never happens. Richard Bruton was really going for gung ho about Ireland being the best education system in the world at, by 2026, with the kind of these key kind of w like you've ran. I suppose the department education like a business, it was interesting how he was doing it, but you could definitely notice what they were doing. Whereas Joe McCue and Norma Foley really just read from the script. And didn't do anything and kept the ship. On the road without actually doing anything. So look, I am going on most about Jennifer Carol McNeil, because maybe there's a hope in me that she will, she does have dash She's most likely, I think because she's on the ascendancy to do something big and that might be potentially. A stepping stone for bigger and better things. And so that's why I have her in number five. Let's move on. Number four. Porrick oh, Sullivan. Now Portico is an, is a teacher. Michael O'Leary would probably be appalled at me putting him this high, but as an interest, do you seem to be in special education? And that those two things combined. Might put them higher up in the list than others who I've. Who've had ministries for special education. Because he is a teacher, he has been Inish. He gets it potentially. And it might, it may, because again, it may possum prime seat for the junior ministry and special education. But it may, if. If it goes on, he might get the foreign minister for education. Again, his special education is the big thing. When we're talking about the minister for education. If we continue to have a Faena foil Mendez for education could be him. It's a Phoenix Gail minister education. I would see him as the most likely, possibly one of the most likely to get the special education post. So an interesting character, I don't know very much about him and funnily enough, I'm not going on as much about him as I did. As our previous person, because I suppose he isn't that well known, but an interesting character that might get at some ministry in the education field. Let's move to the big three here. The most likely top three for the minister for education, I'm going to start off with number three, which is Thomas burned from Faena foiled. Because the reason I have Thomas burn up there. In a way is when finna fall did. Get the minister for education. Back in 2020, I think it was 2020. It was a kind of a surprise. That Thomas burn. Didn't get. The ministry because he was Faena falls, education spokesperson in opposition. And it was Norma Foley who got the posts instead of first time TD and Thomas Byrne. I think whatever it may be rightly or wrongly have been sore about the fact that he had. Lots of experience and education. And probably should have got the position. Maybe. I don't know. Again. I'm not quite sure. And from my point of view, His involvement in the end of the baptism barrier was, it was interesting. And in some ways, because he was actually slightly, and I'm surprised at myself saying this, he was slightly more progressive than Faena Gail and Wei who were in power with the baptism barrier. Now I will say they felt very short of being close to what was needed. At the same time, you have to give some credit to a conservative sort of TD being more progressive to another conservative TT in terms of the baptism barrier. And I thought Thomas Burns performance during the baptism barrier, although not revolutionary, at least he had an opinion and he didn't shy away from that opinion. And it was slightly more progressive than Phoenix gals for those of you who don't know what he did. Richard Bruton was very big into protecting minority faiths by ensuring they could be discriminatory on religious lines, on access skill, Thomas Byrne disagreed with that. That's basically the only difference, which to be honest with you. Anyway thomas burner has continued. I feel to flourish around the education sector. Whenever there's a thing going on in education, you see Thomas burn in the background. I think he did something on some sort of PE initiative there recently enough. So it wouldn't be a surprise to me. If Pinafore did have the minister for the ministry for education, that he might get the post finally in favor of Norma Foley, because I think Norma, Fody, I'm going. Might have run her course at this stage. And if it's a site step, I don't think it will be a surprise to see Thomas burn in the post. The only thing potentially. Maybe in his way is we, it will be a male taking over from a female and do we have enough? Female. At TDS in ministries for education, just in terms of gender balance. And that's not to say that normal Fody might not get a promotion. In fact, it's quite possible. She may get a promotion. I, when I say promotion I'm saying that from the TDS point of view. I wish education was seen as a promotion. It's still one of those positions that sort of, you know, top not in your top portfolios, although I feel it should be. But you may find Norma fairly be moved into justice or health. And then Thomas Burns slipping in there. Let's say he does. What would we see? I don't know if we would see anything revolutionary. I don't think from my point of view, patronage would get a look in. I don't know if we, if any area really. Wood. You know, get a massive revolutionary. I don't know if Thomas Byrne is someone who's on the ascendancy. He may very well be. He may think he is. I don't hear him being pictured or spoken about. As someone who's rising in the Faena fall party. And again, I could be wrong on that. Maybe he's very highly regarded and maybe he will be. You know, A couple of years time you know, he'll be the T shock and. I'll be like, oh, maybe I was wrong there. But right now, from what I can see, I think is a steady pair of hands. He might take over from normal, fairly, but I don't see too many changes in terms of patronage. I'd say he'll do is do a Bish. He'll keep the ship sailing in my view. Number two, we're getting up to the top two. Who do you think it might be? And number two. It's a Phoenix soil. TD. This is who I think was most likely to be the minister for education. If it's a fan of foil politician. And. It's. Yeah, Norma Foti. Yeah, I have a sneaking suspicion. That if there is no promotion in inverted commas for Norma Fody, that she will remain in education to continue her fine work in neglecting our education system. She is the thing about her. I think I have to live. As teachers, we live in a little bubble, we're we think we talked to teachers, we, on most days of the week, we deal with teachers. Most of the time. I think she's. Almost universally on popular with teachers. The thing is she's very popular. With. Outside of education. In some ways I, I think the media really like her. And I think when people talk about her in the media, Most of the time, it's in a positive sense. She shows the teachers. I remember during COVID she was hailed as standing up to those teachers and the unions and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think parents like her. Because she's brought in, she feels she's brought in free school books, free school lunches stuff that's popular for parents free school buses and goodies, to I as a yard stick to being a man education minister, let's give parents free stuff. And essentially, to me, I think she's unpopular with teachers because she's reduced primary education to a really expensive childcare. So free childcare service. For parents rather than being about education, about pedagogy, about it being, this is the thing. I think why teachers really don't like Norma Foley. And why I think parents in Maine do like her. And then the way when people speak about education, they now talk about free stuff. Free school books, free school lunches. And isn't that great. And when I get asked to go on the radio, that's what people say to me. Isn't a great that, when I'm critical, isn't it great though. She brought in free stuff and I'm, it's really hard to say to people like. But that's not. Educational stuff. That's stuff. That's free stuff for parents that reduces people's bills. It doesn't increase education. We've spent the last 20 years trying to get rid of school box in education where it's certainly. Get rid of the reliance on school books and now we're back. To like completely relying on school books because we have to provide them. And then the school lunches, a lot of people, I think school lunches are a positive thing, by the way. But I, the way they were rolled out, I have lots of criticisms over that. Bush in the main, they're a good thing, but most. Teachers I talked to about school lunches. They just, all they do is focus on the tons and tons of waste and how so many families did need school lunches and are getting them. I don't, I think sometimes, I disagree with their points on that Bush. It the waste is systematic it's because of the rollout. I always argue everything has been to do with patronage and I to even include school lunches and not the free school buses. Again, I just, I'm critical of that because we shouldn't be driving children, cross counties and cross streets to go to different schools. Like not to their local school. People should all go to the Roku and that comes down to patronage. But given the system that we're in. You know what I feel, normal photos don't as she's being a minister for parents rather than a minister for education. And I think. Is that was that a calculated. The calculator kind of thing. It may very well have been. And. Would that be enough to keep her in education? The phone pouch. Scandal of the budget. May. Have been. Maybe problematic for her being carried on as a minister for education, she kinda. Dug her heels in and that rather than going quietly, dropping on she, you know, so that will work against her. I feel. The education debate that happened with the Incs. She really messed up on that one re like really badly when it came to the teacher crisis. I know. I've been talking on Ivy listening to Norma thoroughly about the teacher crisis. For five years where she denies it and denies and denies, and she continued that. In the in the education space. A debate. But no. I only did she deny it? She decided, I don't know how she decided this was a good idea. She decided to say that when people are saying it's a crisis, She decided the best comeback for that was I can some languages, ah, That the word crisis and opportunity are the same word as if that was going to make people feel good. So she may have really, I didn't know that there were two major goths and they won't do her any favors. If she wants the minister for education. But I can't think of too many others. And I've mentioned a good few of them. That are in as strong a position. For the minister for education. Then Norma Fody I think Thomas Byrne and Portico a narcotic, they're almost like a swap in swap out system. I don't think they'd rock any boats even cut. What was the name? Carla Crow as well. They're just to a, it would be more of a swap in swap out. System John Conley, Nial Collins. There are the other funerals. None of them are like, I don't think. Are going to make any changes. So the way things are. I, the only thing I could see is normal photo getting a different ministry. And then one of those odds starting into the post. As a kind of a step as a, I didn't have a stop gap. Until, you got the reshuffle happen to maybe Faena Gail got the ministry. I don't know. It's not a. there isn't a lot of people in Faena for. Who are really making ways being revolutionaries for education. And maybe there's someone there in the backbenches or a first-time TD the mice. Might be an interesting and might. I just don't know of who might come in and revolutionize. Education. But if Norma Fody remained in the position, I wouldn't really be surprised. And. I noticed I don't really talk about second level. Hannah riffle is really annoyed. Second level with There at her reforms and I don't. And if they are going to pursue that, continue to pursue that. Normal Foley. Who is, or was a secondary school teacher might be the right person to keep pushing that. If that's a vision. I don't know. I have her as a second. Favorite. And as I'm speaking. I still think she's there's a high risk that she'll remain in that position, but there's also a high risk that you'll be moved to a different ministry. I think she's done. She's done well as a politician rather than the minister for education. And may find yourself in a, in what's considered a higher position. And I'm maybe one of the lads that if uniform keep the ministry. One of the lad, Sarah just continue what she was already doing. So in other words, I know the words of Norma Foti, doesn't get the post. I see Norma Foley remaining in the post, just, it would be a different politician. We're doing the same thing. So we've gone through our top 10. At number one, And maybe on surprising to anyone who watched the I N T O's education debate. It's a Faena Gale minister, a. Faena Gail politician. And it is Patrick O. Donovan who appeared on the education debate representing Faena Gail, which is probably the main reason I have him ad number one. As the potential minister for education and When I was writing my article, I said that Donovan is my favorite to take on this road, but that shouldn't read as being my favorite in anything, but in the batting sense. I would not like, and I would say this very hand on heart. I would not like Patrick O'Donovan to be the next minister for education. However, before I explain that, I will say why there may be positives to him being the minister for education. He is very likely to ensure slight improvements to special education reforms. Because I think he is capable in that sense. He knows. The primary education system as a primary school teacher, I think he's a primary school teacher. With children. In primary schools. And it is possible. Dash better funding will also be something he may fight for. Given that he was a former primary school teacher. However on the downside. I was extremely frustrated by him when I watched the education debate. With the IMCO. I particularly his attitude to the role of religion in schools. This is my main, book bear, when it comes to primary education, this is my one. When I talk about primary education, the main thing I look at is patronage. That is number one concern I have when it comes to the education system. And not just from the religious sense, although it stands from that, but also the effect the patronage has on the education system and why we really need to grasp it as a nettle and grasp it as something that we need to focus on. Unfortunately. He very much defended the status quo saying he wants his children to go to a Catholic school so they can make their sacraments. And it really frustrated me because that is the only reason he wants. Or he said that he wants. Catholic schools to remain because he himself wants to outsource his supposedly Catholicism or is, I don't know what how religious he is, but I S he strikes me as someone who falls into a cultural conflict because. He sees the Catholic school as a place to outsource the sacraments to. And maybe he is super religious, but I don't think he is. I'm pretty sure he isn't ad based on what he was talking about. But it just was so disappointing. It was so disappointing to see a young man. Who doesn't really represent the majority anymore. Most parents. And there are people between the age of 31 and 36 these days. Don't identify as as Catholic they're only 55 as a 50, 50, 50 5% of people. Debra of that age bracket ticked Catholic in the last sentence. And that doesn't mean that they're like religious Catholic. Like I remember about 30% of people who say they're Catholic. Are traditionally Catholic not culturally Catholic. So you're looking at a very kind of small percentage of people who cherish Catholicism and it's it's because I don't, maybe he is one of those people. I don't really know. And I'd love to have a chat to him about it if whether or not she becomes the minister of education and really addressed that. Oh no. When he was asked about patronage, that it was all about him and his needs and there was no. There's just not a single kind of. I don't know there wasn't a single kind of thought. For anyone that wasn't a cultural Catholic or even a strong Catholic about wanting a Catholic school and no irony. Around the fact that His own situation being more important than the situation of anyone else around him. And I was it always, it led me to a question about them and I'm going to do an article on this. About if Patrick O'Donovan happened not to be parched, go Donovan. And I happened to be I don't know, let's say. Someone who isn't Catholic. A non-Catholic Patrick or Donovan, let's say someone church, a church of Ireland at Patrick O'Donovan or a Muslim Pachuco Donovan or an atheist Patrica Donovan. Where he lives. He lives in new castle, west in county, Limerick. By the way, I'm not stalking that's public information. And new castle west in county, Limerick. I don't know very much about the area, but I, my, my sense and I've driven through it is that there's a guayle school there. I know there's Glasgow there because I've visited. And that's a Catholic girls school. It's not a multi-denominational bowel skull, I think. I'll have to check that out, but I'm 99% sure of that. And there's Catholic schools and I'm not sure. I, there may be a church of Aaron's good. I don't know, but I'm going to, I'm going to find out this. So with Patrika Donovan. It was an atheist. What school. Where would you have to, he would have to ensure for its children to be insured, or if equal respect and skill. He went to dry from Newcastle west, into Limerick city every day. And I can imagine that journey takes quite some time with traffic or he may have to drive out to Ennis. I think that might be on his way. Another bit of a journey as well. At to ensure his children were treated with equality. Similarly. We would have now maybe I'm wrong. There might be a an education guide to scooter, a community national school it'll coaster. And this is why I have to do the article. My sense is that there are the two most There are the two schools. That at least are going to be half an hour of a drive every day. To there and back in order to be treated with equal spec. Similarly, if he was a Muslim or Jewish or some other faith that isn't Catholic and I the challenge, I would have to Patrick, a donor and I'm actually going to pick on them. If he is the minister for education I, I. About that sentence, that I'm Catholic. And I want my children to go to a Catholic school so they can make their sacraments quote unquote. And I want to think, I want you to think about that. If he wasn't Catholic and how non-Catholic people in Newcastle west feel about that opinion. Now he would probably say that never comes to his door, but it's not about the P I always say you have to think, and I say this to my staff. I say this to people around me. About what you do when you're taught, when you were thinking about Religion and schools are, when you're thinking about talking about religion or thinking about your own. Th whatever your religion might be, you don't just think about the people that are in front of you, the people who are. Who you're speaking to. You always think about the people who aren't in front of you. They're as important. And often they don't have the confidence to speak up. They're the people who are in the background. Because they are in the background, not because they choose to be in the background. There's the people who don't want to raise their head above the power pitch because they're already vulnerable. To the likes of I'm a Catholic. I want my kids to go to a Catholic school to make their sacraments. Arguing against that. As a minority faith. Only gets you the sort of response that I, January gastro disease is a Catholic country and go away, get back to your own country and then all that sort of stuff. It's not what most people want to hear. Anyway. Whatever tiny progress is being made in this area. In terms of the Phoenix Delphina gal. Government is just. It's not good. It's not happening. And any progress that was being made we had our first educate together school divested from the Catholic church in 2023. Or 2024, actually this year. Warren educate go to school in 11 years was divested from the Catholic church. That's the level of tiny progress. I actually think even that tiny amount of progress is going to be curtailed by that attitude of I'm a Catholic. I want my child to go to a Catholic school to make their sacraments, that cultural Catholic sentence. Of not thinking about anyone outside of your own house. And. I don't see any kind of mentioned progress on patron is now in the finagle manifesto, which means that it's gone the 400 schools before 2030 has gone. And with O'Donovan at the rains, I see little hope of anything positive for the thousands of families and teachers, because teachers who are also affected, I don't think Patrick would don't even realize is when he wants to send his conflict. Census children's Catholic schools that the teachers who are teaching this Catholic stuff may not believe the stuff that he wants them to do so effectively. We've got non-believers teaching non-believers about. To prepare them for the sacraments and it's just. But the attitudes that, that is still there and I keep going on about. There are teachers very much effected by this patronage model. And I'm going to mention education equality. And I think I'm going to be mentioning education equality, the lobby group. In almost every podcast I do and patients, they are. They are a super group who are collecting story after story, horrific stories of our teachers and parents and children have to go through as not being part of the status quo. In fact, this week as I'm recording one of the most. Shocking stories of all. And it's it's I suppose as things go viral it's as viral as these sort of things, gash. Was the story of a teacher who wrote to education. Telling him telling them. That she was in her costume and the priest rocked in and took over the cost and started asking the children to raise her as a teacher and this kind of stuff. That goes on and that's just one of many stories. Where a teacher. Who was working in a Catholic school, whether they're Catholic or not is being undermined by the structures of the Catholic church in is where you feel you are silenced. You cannot talk. About your about four. Some stuff like, nevermind whether, you might not be Catholic or practice, but even if you're doing things that are slightly against the Catholic church's teachings now about living with your partner not being married or whatever it might be. There's still some teachers that don't talk about that just in case. The there's a very overzealous priest on the board who might frown upon that. Or maybe you might get a principal who's fairly overzealous, or maybe you won't have one now, but might have one in the future and you have to protect yourself. All of that. I am saying. Is Patrico Donovan's source of when he made that sentence, that's the sort of stuff I was thinking about it, but it still makes him the favors. To be the next minister for education. I do believe the next minutes of our education is likely to be a fan of Gail minister. He seems to be given. He was the one that was put forward for the primary education debate to be the born in. I had to be the one in there. He has experienced as a minister. So there's dot going forum. And I suppose he probably is on the ascendancy he's he was a younger from what I was reading. He was one of those rising stars in the past. He's now coming of age and all the rest of us. So look, I guess having said all of all that you know, I think we might, that's why he's my favorite to take on the position. I'm not sure what you all think. Maybe you think differently. I'd be very interested in hearing about who you think will be the next minister for education. I'm putting my I'm putting my bets on Patrika Donovan to be named the next minister for education. Obviously, if the social Democrats or the labor party do go into coalition, I will change this because I would see the minister of education going to one of those. They have plans. They have progressive plans that I don't think Faena file and Finnegan. God wants to touch. But they would be wise enough to know that this is something that needs to happen. And why not blame it on a labor or a social Democrat, whereas I was woke parties as they might call them for trying to push that in. That's what requeen tried to do back in 2011. It didn't punish maybe 15 years later for nearly 15 years ago, we were in a different bracket. look, I think I've spoken. A lot here. I don't know how many Akash I'm nearly an hour into this. A fairly long, top 10. I hope you've enjoyed my ponderings. I should have one more episode before the end of 2024, where I look back on the year, that was, I'd be interested to hear what your highlights or lowlights were from the education in 2024. I'm an interesting year in education, maybe. And until then I will chat to you then. Thank you so much for listening all the very best bye-bye.